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#1 2017-09-13 11:30 am

JohnBeil
Member
Registered: 2017-09-13
Posts: 12

Precautions

First of all i would like to apologise if this is n the incorrect thread, secondly the email used is a reference to an old site that no longer exists ( as per your email suggestions in rules)

Im sure you guys have heard these types of posts a million times before , about spam reports, and spammers wanting removal.

Now i support fully what sfs is doing, i have seen many a good forum go to waste because os spamming and this is definitely something that is doing good, however there are some things i wish to clarify for myself.

I have searched online only to find disgruntled people blasting sps or people supporting it so i though let me go to the source.

So let me give you a quick background , i am a graphic designer / web developer ( well learning ). I have used forums to great success in learning about a wide variety of topics ranging from coding to cms , cdn's and so much more that would have taken me years to find on my own.

This knowledge has allowed me to implicate these things in real life and become relatively successful at what i do.

I am from South africa most of the forums , not that i bother to look , that i am registered to are probably uk and us. I dont promote web design online hell theres freelancer and besides whos going to hire a guy from South africa. We have no rep at all for it proficiency. lol.

The traffic i get from some of the websites permitting a visit homepage button or something in that line , is little since as soon as somebody sees .co.za they arent interested and there is freelancer and fiver what i do has no place in an online international community to be advertised i dont even know why spammers try it.

So literally there is no benefit to me on these forums except knowledge, sometimes sharing what i know , and sometimes being corrected on what i think i know.

Recently i got listed here i suspect from a single site, i have as suggested requested the removal of my listing.

What bothers me , is when i looked at your submission form for spammers , providing evidence is optional... Does this mean that anyone can be listed at any time?

My posts in my opinion have always been of standard of good quality , never below i always make a conscious effort to add some new information , or ask a question that has not been asked. This however is debatable im not here to argue that, i respect that each forum owner has the right to refuse whatever the heck he or she wants and im ok with that. It is for you to moderate whether it was a just submission or not.

My concern is these forums have literally taught me how to make my bread and butter in real life , not online , not through their forums (Providing you dont count what they teach you).

This banning has now put me off of a few forums that ive been a member of for quite some time.

I am now however scared in the sense that anybody can basically cut me off from a large amount of my info at a whim , as has just happened , info that i use to make a living.

What can i do , that i haven't already done to prevent myself from falling into such a situation, besides informative posts, following rules. Should i hide under fake ips and gmail accounts ? so that if one is banned i may continue with another? I dont want to do that . You can google my banned name and see for yourself how i post in general , there is no history or pattern , hell i even posted on a forum about spammers.

So guys please advise me what more can i do to prevent myself from coming here and begging for redemtion that i am not even sure is legitimate.

Kind regards
John

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#2 2017-09-13 12:12 pm

GarryRicketson
Moderator
From: Mexico
Registered: 2011-08-19
Posts: 1,260
Website

Re: Precautions

Hello ,

What bothers me , is when i looked at your submission form for spammers , providing evidence is optional... Does this mean that anyone can be listed at any time?

Well not exactly, and your post is very long, it may take a while to give a good reply.
First though, there is strict criteria that must be met for anyone to submit and spammers. To start with
they need a API key, this serves several purposes, including giving a way to identify the source of the submission, and of and when we find that some one is simply submitting "just anyone", the API key is removed,
they no longer can make any submissions.
When a spammer is submitted, the must have actually posted something that is spam, and they have to have used a valid e-mail address that is verified when they register.

Recently i got listed here i suspect from a single site, i have as suggested requested the removal of my listing.

Was the removal done ?  And this is one reason people that submit spammers should use the evidence field,
Generally if it is just a single submission, and there is no evidence, and nothing to indicate that data submitted is currently active or still getting submitted , usually it is removed. 

This banning has now put me off of a few forums that ive been a member of for quite some time.

You should also try to contact them, and try to find out why you were banned, also the person / forum that actually made the submission, whoever the API key belongs to , they can remove the submission as well.

You can google my banned name a

But you do not mention what that name is, nor the IP and e-mail that was banned.

And using fake IPs, bad e-mails, etc,..is most likely to result in you getting banned in more places,... those are all
little tricks spammers try to use to avoid being listed and caught.
Excessively long posts should be avoided, often a busy moderator may not take the time to read the entire post,
and if there are links in it,... that is a fast way to get submitted as a spammer.
That is all for now.

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#3 2017-09-13 12:48 pm

JohnBeil
Member
Registered: 2017-09-13
Posts: 12

Re: Precautions

Hi garry thanks for your prompt response.

Yes i the post is long winded i am somewhat upset about this.
Ok so let me make this quick.
i have requested removal ( only a few hours back i expect it will take you longer review it)
I have mailed the admin , apologising if i overstepped , also stating that i will not return to their site. ( it has no value if thats the way they behave, i didnt say that though..)
The name i will petershene (unsure if its wise to post here as somebody could reban me based on name alone).
i Use this gmail for my forum posts alone as i am scared of getting my business email hacked.

Regards John

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#4 2017-09-13 1:22 pm

GarryRicketson
Moderator
From: Mexico
Registered: 2011-08-19
Posts: 1,260
Website

Re: Precautions

No one can make a submission based on a user name alone.
Ok , well I see there was no evidence submitted, it is a rather recent submission.

i have requested removal ( only a few hours back i expect it will take you longer review it)

Yes, you need to be patient on that, it can even take a week or so, it depends on how busy the person
responsible for that is, and also if there is any other activity reported.

  If the forum admins are active and responsible, at the forum that you were submitted from, like I mentioned
who ever submitted you has access to the API key, and also using the same key they can access what we call
"myspammers", this is a list of all the spammers submitted , and we can remove any mistake or submission we make if need be.
 
   We do everything we can to prevent false submissions, and any abuse of the API key, is dealt with severely,
Most forum admins do not want to lose the API key and privilege of being able to use the data base.

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#5 2017-09-13 4:08 pm

Alex Kemp
Moderator
From: Nottingham, England
Registered: 2009-12-02
Posts: 1,867
Website

Re: Precautions

Hi JohnBeil

I'm sorry to hear that you have had a problem by being listed here in the SFS database. Some brief remarks to underline what Garry has already said:-

  1. No evidence == immediate remove-submission if removal request received from “spammer” + only one submission in DB

  2. First line response should be to the place that submitted you, as they also have an easy method of removal
    (via User Panel | My Spammers)

  3. Mention above in removal request

  4. You are bound to be het-up, but keep everything brief - nothing other than the API is automated, it is all operated by volunteers.

  5. Please be patient. Only a single person has the authority to remove submissions.

We understand that it is not a perfect system, but it is effective against spammers and, really, all that we have.

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#6 2017-09-13 4:13 pm

JohnBeil
Member
Registered: 2017-09-13
Posts: 12

Re: Precautions

Thanx alex it does put my mind somewhat at ease i though i was going to get labled here and blasted. I unfortunately only decided to ask the forum owner after , i requested removal, so that was not included in my removal submission.

Another question , other forums that are subscribed to sfs , when i try log in now it says ip banned because of this one forum , does it send a message to those other forums i tiy to enter about me being banned?

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#7 2017-09-13 4:20 pm

JohnBeil
Member
Registered: 2017-09-13
Posts: 12

Re: Precautions

Alex Kemp wrote:

We understand that it is not a perfect system, but it is effective against spammers and, really, all that we have.

Yea i understand this i would rather spend a few days off, than not have this system around to protect forums. They are too valuable to me in terms of knowledge.

I would ask that evidence be a compulsory part of submission and that the submission is reviewed before accepted, however, im sure you have considered these options and came to a conclusion as to why this method would not work.

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#8 2017-09-13 4:36 pm

Alex Kemp
Moderator
From: Nottingham, England
Registered: 2009-12-02
Posts: 1,867
Website

Re: Precautions

Doesn't work like that.

SFS makes zero decisions about who shall / shall not be banned from a forum.

SFS holds a DB of submissions + provides an API to allow read/write auto-access to that DB. Forum owners setup their forums to auto-access the SFS DB when a user wants to register, etc.. According to the results from SFS, the forum owner will decide to allow/refuse access to users (and not SFS itself).

In the early days a site would refuse access on the basis of a single SFS entry. That is probably foolish today, since the number of SFS users is huge but again - that is NOT within SFS control.

Final point: you say “i try log in now it says ip banned”. If the problem is only IP-based then it may have little to do with you (although you DO have a single SFS entry).

whois 105.225.172.152
% This is the AfriNIC Whois server.

% No abuse contact registered for 105.224.0.0 - 105.225.255.255

inetnum:        105.224.0.0 - 105.225.255.255
netname:        Telkom_Internet_Broadband_105_224
descr:          Addresses used to provide Broadband access to Telkom Internet customer
...
remarks:        Abuse complaints can be directed to abuse@saix.net
remarks:        DNS Issues can be directed to dnsadmin@saix.net. Alex, can you see this

(yes)

That looks like a shared-IP (dynamic) setup, so it could be that the problem also comes from other users. Forums need to use email as well as IP when making decisions.

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#9 2017-09-13 4:44 pm

JohnBeil
Member
Registered: 2017-09-13
Posts: 12

Re: Precautions

Alex bear with me here are you saying that only my ip is blocked even though my email and user name is listed here? My name and email have been reported so surely that also doesnt allow me access otherwise i could go and reset my router for a new ip...

But this is a whole range he has blocked so that probably wouldnt serve me to get back into my old forums either.

Last edited by JohnBeil (2017-09-13 4:47 pm)

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#10 2017-09-13 5:15 pm

GarryRicketson
Moderator
From: Mexico
Registered: 2011-08-19
Posts: 1,260
Website

Re: Precautions

JohnBeil>>Another question , other forums that are subscribed to sfs , when i try log in now it says ip banned because of this one forum , does it send a message to those other forums i tiy to enter about me being banned?

Actually Alex is quoting what you said,...so no he is not saying that.
Are you blocked from some other forum, and it says the IP is banned ?
If a forum is using Stop Forum Spam, and they check the data base , it will show any listings here.
The part you don't seem to understand, we have absolutely nothing to do with you being banned on
any specific forum, it all depends on how they have their forum configured, and the bans. 
Normally most forums do not ban just for the IP, how ever if the user name, e-mail, and IP all match, and they
have it set up to ban anyone listed here, yes you would be blocked or banned.
  And yes, if it says the IP is banned, you can reset your router, and you will get a different IP, if they have banned  the user name, you still won't be able to login though.

Then , there also are other forums that do not even use SFS, ......
We only offer a data base,  where they can check and see if a IP,user name, or e-mail is listed, nothing more.
The blocking or banning is done by the site administration, not us.
It is common , if a ISP is very problematic, and being used by a high number of spammers, some forum admins do block/ban the entire range.  We have nothing to do with that.

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#11 2017-09-13 5:30 pm

JohnBeil
Member
Registered: 2017-09-13
Posts: 12

Re: Precautions

ok i understand now. You may not be the party doing the blocking, but by providing them an ability to submit users with no evidence to a database that can be accessed by many ( as an alternative to spammers ) , any user can be hit through your database by multiple forums for unproven reasons, as is my case.

Its like a single business decides i am not a good person to give financial credit to based on no actual evidence so they submit me to get blacklisted on a database, which is trusted by other businesses to give them a clear indication of who m to give credit to. Now i cannot get credit anywhere else, based on the misuse and assumption of one entry.

I understand the database Being you , is not responsible , but when you yield such massive influence over others you become the third party.

That would technically be unlawful sabotage, or slandering. (provided there is no evidence ofcourse).

Look im not here to pick a fight, i just want my submission reviewed and hope that it doesn't effect my standing within other communities. Where does one report abuse of your services ?

i wish i could access a cache of that page and show you what was banned it was ridiculous.

I know excalty what post it was because i had signed up , did the introduction even got a welcome. Then i answered a question somebody had about changing font in wordpress, which i know three diffrent methods to , i explained these methods , left NO link or signatures , and the post dissapeared and i was suddenly in your database

Last edited by JohnBeil (2017-09-13 5:35 pm)

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#12 2017-09-13 5:34 pm

GarryRicketson
Moderator
From: Mexico
Registered: 2011-08-19
Posts: 1,260
Website

Re: Precautions

From the first post: https://www.stopforumspam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=47730#p47730

JohnBeil>>Im sure you guys have heard these types of posts a million times before , about spam reports, and spammers wanting removal.

Actually no, not even close to a million times, yes there are a few posts from so called "innocent victims",
that have been wrong fully submitted, but very few.  You can browse the forum topics , you will see
there are not very many.  A few, actually were a mistake, or should not have been submitted, and they
got the removal as requested.

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#13 2017-09-13 5:41 pm

JohnBeil
Member
Registered: 2017-09-13
Posts: 12

Re: Precautions

i wish i could access a cache of that page and show you what was banned it was ridiculous.
I know excalty what post it was because i had signed up , did the introduction even got a welcome. Then i answered a question somebody had about changing font in wordpress, which i know three diffrent methods to , i explained these methods , left NO link or signatures , and the post dissapeared and i was suddenly in your database

by chance if you are wondering why there is no evidence submitted that would be because there is none.


Very well thanks for your assistance Gary and John it seems all i can do is wait there is no point in  me trying to prove anything here.

Last edited by JohnBeil (2017-09-13 5:43 pm)

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#14 2017-09-13 6:07 pm

GarryRicketson
Moderator
From: Mexico
Registered: 2011-08-19
Posts: 1,260
Website

Re: Precautions

Well, it is probably best just to tell us about it here, on the forum, but we also have this :
https://www.stopforumspam.com/contact
Read it very carefully , before submitting any thing.

i wish i could access a cache of that page and show you what was banned it was ridiculous.

         So you do know why you were banned ?It may have seemed ridicules to you, but apparently the site admin does not think it is so ridicules. Or it was just a simple mistake.
If you think that by constantly posting here is going to speed up the removal process  , you are "barking up the wrong tree".

Look im not here to pick a fight, i just want my submission reviewed and hope that it doesn't effect my standing within other communities. Where does one report abuse of your services ?

We all ready have told you several times the process takes some time.

I understand the database Being you , is not responsible , but when you yield such massive influence over others you become the third party.

That would technically be unlawful sabotage, or slandering. (provided there is no evidence ofcourse).

You don't know, maybe the site that banned you does have copies of what you posted  saved, and
even though they did not include it in the "evidence" on the submission, they do have the evidence, often people do not include excessively long posts, and if and when it is many , multiple posts, often they do not put it all in the evidence field because it is to long,... 
You might find this interesting to read :
https://www.stopforumspam.com/threats
I assure you everything we are doing is legal, and again, I want to stress this, posting over and over, like you are doing , is not going to speed up the process of getting a removal. 
If you browse some of the other topics you will see , as I mentioned , this is not the first time we have had some one complain  because they were submitted to the data base, but  it is not very often it was due to "unlawful sabotage, or slandering.", or anything like that.
Have good day.

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#15 2017-09-13 6:27 pm

JohnBeil
Member
Registered: 2017-09-13
Posts: 12

Re: Precautions

http://www.techimo.com/forum/web-design-development-graphics-photography/316600-how-change-font-wordpress-website.html this is the thread , besides the method mentioned above there are others:

-You can edit a css file directly as you would in a standard static html by inserting a new rule for the class.
-In WordPress admin under editor there is a option for additional css the overrides i believe the style.css so find the class of the text you wish to change and insert the new css there, i try avoid this as it might block one css rule to alow another.
-You can install a plugin that alows control over typography this however i would not recommend as it is an additional plugin and may cause speed issues and sometimes limits the controls to headings and paragraphs only but if you have no other way it could help.

This is what i replied.....

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#16 2017-09-13 6:31 pm

JohnBeil
Member
Registered: 2017-09-13
Posts: 12

Re: Precautions

I apologise if it got heated it is not my intention Garry i know you are doing what you believe is just.
I will end the discussion here , thanks again

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#17 2017-09-13 7:30 pm

GarryRicketson
Moderator
From: Mexico
Registered: 2011-08-19
Posts: 1,260
Website

Re: Precautions

Well, this is interesting to see :

Spam-O-Matic Statistics

1148317 Spammers Denied Registration

5449 Spammers Permanently Banned

17634 Spammers submitted to StopForumSpam

19231 Spammers submitted to Akismet

153300 Spammy Posts Automatically Moderated

It may take some time to check all of this, but I can assure you, if it turns out they are submitting people
that did not actually post any spam they will end up banned here, and unable to get a API key, it may also
just be a "trigger happy" auto-moderator, but in any even it will be looked into,

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#18 2017-09-13 9:51 pm

sklerder
Member
Registered: 2012-10-11
Posts: 195
Website

Re: Precautions

Hi all !

By seeing the statistics of the named site, I note (quoting your answer, Garry) :
- 1148317 Spammers Denied Registration (at the moment I'm posting, it only incremented of 1)
-     17634 Spammers submitted to StopForumSpam

IMHO, the ratio (~1.5 %) between denied registrations and SFS submissions seems to be reasonable, no ?
- 153300 Spammy Posts Automatically Moderated
Compared to the number of SFS submitted spammers, it seems reasonable, too.

@JohnBeil : You should really discuss with this forum (the incriminated one) moderators or administrators, if you believe that they (illegally)  banned you.
Their politic is theirs, its not SFS's politic.

On a site I own and on another where I'm moderator, bans and/or registration denies are discussed with the team and only with the team (it's not any third party tool which decides of banning or deny registration).
Between these two sites, over more than 100,000 submissions), I've had only one disagreement (five years ago) with a subscription (due to a too restrictive SFS check), and it was solved between the registrant and me without any discussion with SFS.

Last edited by sklerder (2017-09-13 9:52 pm)

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#19 2017-09-13 10:02 pm

JohnBeil
Member
Registered: 2017-09-13
Posts: 12

Re: Precautions

Skelder like i said i got a bit hot under the collar i apologise for that, i honestly do believe in what sfs is doing..and now understand the various hands in play do not just involve sfs.

I have given all the information i have and discussed it here i also submitted to the link garry referred me to. .It seems there are different opinions , i dont know how your structure works internally. Ive tried contacting site admin of the forum to no avail.. I have done what i can so if this is how it is then so be it.

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#20 2017-09-13 10:17 pm

sklerder
Member
Registered: 2012-10-11
Posts: 195
Website

Re: Precautions

JohnBeil wrote:

i dont know how your structure works internally.

Normally, each structure announces its rules, so, its the first place to go.

Ive tried contacting site admin of the forum

Well, maybe you should just be patient ...

sklerder

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#21 2017-09-13 10:56 pm

GarryRicketson
Moderator
From: Mexico
Registered: 2011-08-19
Posts: 1,260
Website

Re: Precautions

It also seems to me , if there was any kind of misuse of the API going on, we would have gotten quite a few
more complaints, requests for removal, etc.  But those are things that get looked at when the removal request
is processed,  1 time out of 17634 , is pretty rare,... more likely some one clicked the wrong button.
Example: "Delete", "Delete and Ban",  Submit Spam,Ban and Delete". 
It may take the admins of that forum sometime to respond as well, but I am sure they have logs,etc.


----- edite----
I  have been submitted and banned , once or twice my self,..ha, one time the moderator did include a e-mail ,
to me, that I had been banned and submitted as a spammer. Well , I knew I had not posted any spam, so
I replied and asked to please tell me , why my post was considered spam,  obviously I wanted to avoid the
same thing happening again and not having a clue as to why it was spam makes it hard.

The response was, that is sounded "spammy" to them, and also because I use a lot of .....
Like in , "Let me think a minuet...."   I notice both the OP, and Sklerder do the same,...

Well, maybe you should just be patient ...

So any way, I wrote back that as far as I know, using to many .... does not qualify as spam,
the moderator apologized and removed me,.. just goes to show though.

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#22 2017-09-13 10:57 pm

JohnBeil
Member
Registered: 2017-09-13
Posts: 12

Re: Precautions

im trying from my side to find a cached file on the thread

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#23 2017-09-13 11:15 pm

GarryRicketson
Moderator
From: Mexico
Registered: 2011-08-19
Posts: 1,260
Website

Re: Precautions

That is not really necessary, Alex all ready said this, and I did too, when it is a single entry, and no evidence was included, the removal request is granted,

Alex Kemp>>No evidence == immediate remove-submission if removal request received from “spammer” + only one submission in DB

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#24 2017-09-14 8:01 am

GarryRicketson
Moderator
From: Mexico
Registered: 2011-08-19
Posts: 1,260
Website

Re: Precautions

I have closed this topic .  JohnBeil has now been added to the data base as well, The OP just had to keep
posting, but finally they did post something that is spam, the link in the post had nothing to do with the topic
and did not point to any relevant details.  The repeated posts, after politely being told to be patient, etc,...
Excessively long posts , etc,... this is the kind of thing that gets people listed as spammers.
============= edited========
Was removed from the data base  so I
removed link to evidence.

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#25 2017-09-14 9:35 am

pedigree
uıɐbɐ ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ buıʎnq ɹǝʌǝu ɯ,ı
From: New Zealand
Registered: 2008-04-16
Posts: 6,541

Re: Precautions

I've removed JohnBeil from the DB as the listing doesnt met the requirement of spam.  As mentioned in the thread, sfs lists submissions from people that have been spammed.  It makes no decisions or investigations into who or what is using shared IP addresses, forced proxies or if the endpoint is a VPN and/or a tor exit node.  The details here are simply a tool and how someone uses that tool is not up to us, nor can we be seen to influence that.  We provide the data, recommendations on how to and how not to use that data.

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